A sincere thank you to everyone who has contributed to the conversation over the past few days. Before we leave this in the past (for now), I have a few final words on it.

I have seen a lot of discussions about how this effects people for various reasons, be it that brands don’t make clothing in their size, or it’s too expensive, or what-have-you. I’ll come right out and say it: this line of reasoning is completely invalid.

Replica does not mean off-brand. It means just that — a direct replica of somebody else’s copyrighted work. (I believe the term should extend to obvious pattern recreations as well, but for the purposes of this conversation, it only applies to copyrighted artwork and logos.) So, yes, while it does suck if you cannot afford or wear a legit print for whatever reason, that doesn’t give you license to buy a counterfeit of that piece from someone else. What it should encourage you to do is to buy a dress that suits you, your lifestyle, your budget, that has been created without stealing somebody else’s hard work. There are plenty of brands on Taobao doing non-replica stuff in lots of different sizes and price ranges. Bodyline is not solely a replica company any longer. There are options.

But I don’t want those! I want that Angelic Pretty print! Just for $250 less.

Oh, well then. Steal away.

Wait, what? I’m a male and my interest in fashion is largely in the mid to high end Japanese designers. I’m an active member of several fashion communities, most of them being general fashion communities, not specifically Japanese fashion. So maybe there is some integral part of the “lolita experience” that I am missing, but I have to say, I have never, ever seen counterfeits portrayed in a positive light until now.

People are trying to cast the big lolita brands as luxury brands who won’t miss the money in order to absolve themselves. Listen, Maki and Asuka aren’t swimming around in a vault full of gold coins like Scrooge McDuck. While I don’t doubt that the major lolita brands are doing well enough, they are not luxury conglomerates like Louis Vuitton. They are relatively small companies operating within an extremely small niche, and they support the entire culture of lolita because their existence depends on it.

So when you decide to give your money to someone who has literally stolen from them, you are sending a very clear message: I don’t care if lolita brands exist or lolita brands survive as long as I can get whatever I want at whatever price I feel like paying. You are not just fucking over the owners of these big brands but everyone they employee and all of the effort that has been put into sustaining the lolita culture for roughly three decades.

I realize that, for a lot of people, price is the big issue. But it’s no excuse. I could argue how stores like H&M and Forever 21 have completely skewed our perception of what clothing should cost, and how lolita brands are generally fairly reasonably priced, but I won’t waste my time because I think it will fall on deaf ears.

What I am going to do is encourage you to spend your money not on replicas, but on original designs created by lower end designers. And I think the proponents of a more accessible lolita culture are misguided to not promote this above all else. A culture cannot be sustained on counterfeit goods, but low-end brands doing their own design work do have a lot to contribute, and they deserve as much support as the “big brands.”

If anyone knows about any good, lower-end lolita brands that could use some promotion, please let me know. If you’re a designer, even better.

Thanks for reading!

brad-t
definitely not a lolita, but a definite lolita-lover 

A great post by EGL mod Honeyed on what this ban on EGL actually means. Simply put: it’s a legal issue, not an ethics issue. Although, I find the debate about ethics much more interesting. :)

honeyed:

First up! This post on EGL, again, explains everything, but if you want a quick rundown of it basically what it says is that one of the major Lolita brands contacted the mods (of which I’m one of btw) of EGL, asking that replicas sales/info/discussions be removed from EGL & it’s sales…

Last night, the world’s most popular lolita community — EGL — announced that discussion and trading of replicas is now forbidden across all of its services, including EGL Community Sales. The decision was prompted by what sounds like a Cease & Desist (or some equivalent thereof) sent by a lolita brand in Japan. They didn’t say which one, though current trends would dictate it was likely Angelic Pretty.

More specifically, the ban applies only to replica pieces that are replicating “copyrighted material”. In the fashion world, you can’t copyright much — this rule basically means that only items reproducing prints and logos are banned, since you cannot copyright design features of clothing. That means that shoes, bags, and clothing items with designs that are inspired or directly lifted from brand items are still fair game. This is a pretty lenient policy on EGL’s part. It’s also good for a lot of people since many lolita brands have incredibly limited shoe sizing.

Despite the complaints of a vocal minority in the comments, the reaction seems to be generally positive. And to those of you who think this is a bad decision, I’d like to take a bit of time to explain why this is a Very Good Thing.

Support from lolita brands

Over the past few years, we’ve seen lolita brands in Japan greatly expand their support for overseas customers. Many brands now have English-speaking staff to answer customer inquiries, overseas shipping, and expanded sizing options. There are even some stores open outside of Japan. Surely, these brands are doing this largely because they believe there is money to be had by appealing to international consumers, but the leap of faith they are taking cannot be understated.

How can support of the international lolita community be expected to continue when that community is supporting the sales of counterfeit items? It can’t, really. I can’t imagine how it must feel for the designers of lolita brands to see that the international lolita community is in support of ripping off their work.

It’s about respect

My favourite Japanese brand is Kiryuyrik designed by Masakatsu Takayanagi. We are friends on Facebook. We have exchanged messages with each other. They’ve replaced defective products for me and helped me find sold out items. It is more expensive than most lolita brands. However, Takayanagi is an artist owning a small brand and trying to make a living doing what he loves. Most of the lolita brands are similar. They are not huge corporations. They seem like giants in the sphere of lolita, but they are really small independent companies trying to make money in a highly niche, highly competitive market. I would bet that Bodyline is probably a bigger company than most of the lolita brands.

I couldn’t buy a replica of Takayanagi’s designs, even if they were identical except for the lower price. He is the guy who created that artwork originally. He is trying to make a living doing what he does. If I am going to enjoy his work, it’s only fair that he gets paid for it.

The lolita brands that some people are all-too-happy to ignore when it comes to participating in the style are largely responsible for the style existing at all. They are the backbone of the culture. Without them, there’s nothing.

“It’s too expensive!”

It is not fair game just because the original maker does not want to make it cheaper. The original makers are trying to make good clothing that fits with their image. Of course money is the end goal, but it is not the 100% motivation like it is for these replica brands. So to reprimand a brand for not producing lowest common denominator garbage and using it as a justification for others to steal their work is frankly baffling.

If you want to wear replicas, nobody can stop you. But it gets insane when people try to say the brands deserve to be ripped off for being expensive. These clothes are NOT that expensive if you compare them to fashion beyond Wal-Mart or horrible mall brands. These are generally well made items, with custom artwork commissioned for each design, and there are stores to rent, employees to pay … people won’t be happy until these brands aren’t making any money, and then they will die, and there will be no good designs left to rip off.

There is room for affordable lolita clothing

Replica doesn’t have to be the only way. There’s a shockingly underserved market for low-end lolita clothing that that’s all but ignored by everyone except maybe Bodyline, who are often selling replicas as well. But a few things need to happen:

• Lolitas need to stop demanding brand replicas and start being OK with original designs from low-end makers
• Replica-producers need to reposition themselves as producers of low-end “inspired” clothing
• Everyone needs to understand that design and artwork takes time to produce — and that is going to raise prices

What do you think?

Generally, we’re of the opinion that this is a step in the right direction for the lolita community as a whole. Hopefully with this move, the level of respect it gets from Japanese brands will increase, and we will see more international support from those brands.

What do you think of EGL’s decision or the replica issue as a whole? We’d love to hear it, so send us a message or reblog this article with your comments!

UPDATE

To debunk some of the things I’ve seen written about this:

“Gucci, Chanel, LV get knocked off all the time, but you don’t see them complain about it!”

Actually yeah, they do complain about it, and rightfully so. Despite how I feel about these brands, they have a right to protect their IP. That said, most of these brands are not losing sales because someone buys a $50 replica of a $2000+ bag, because that is a stratospheric price difference. You can’t compare that to a $60-100 replica of a $300 dress.

“Fashion has no copyright, so replicas can’t be illegal.”

To reiterate — fashion design in the context of garment pattern has no copyright, but the artwork and logos attached to a design are under copyright law.

“What about plus size and others who cannot fit into lolita brand clothing?”

This is an unfortunate situation with no easy answer. It’s more ambiguous certainly because a lolita who buys a replica of a brand piece she cannot fit into is not a “lost sale” for the brand — however, that kind of ambiguity isn’t possible to enforce. There are low-end brands producing stuff for all shapes and sizes out there without recreating artwork. You just have to look.

There is a lot of hype going around the lolita community right now about Moi-même-Moitié’s latest print series, Sleeping Garden. Personally, while it’s a decent dress, I don’t think the stratospheric level of praise is deserved.

The attempt at overlaying a single image over the entire skirt is not new, but to me this seems like a poorly executed attempt to recreate the sense of drama that Juliette et Justine’s now famous Féerie series was able to capture.

The painted image on Juliette et Justine is beautiful in and of itself, but does not overwhelm the dress — it elegantly fades into the fabric itself. The Moitié dress’s image is, by comparison, slapped on — the image covers the entire skirt with no sense of gradiation.

Furthermore, the Sleeping Garden print is simply too photographic. It looks like a rather badly photoshopped photograph of a cemetery, something more welcome on a gothic community website’s banner than on a $400+ dress.

Generally my feelings on Moitié are mixed — some pieces are stellar whereas others, such as this, fall flat. However, I’m no lolita, and I’d love to hear some girls who love this series explain what they love about it.

To bring some humour to your Sunday afternoon, here’s MC Melod¥ Doll with Throw it in the Bag, a bizarre rap parody of lolita attitudes. Incredible.

(And a big “fuck you” to people who were dumb enough to think this wasn’t parody.)

dailylolita:

cfyrch looks beautiful in this gothic coordinate.

Check out the hair and long skirt! I’m in love!

If you’re not following them already, dailylolita.tumblr.com is a great way to see lolita looks from all over the world in a really concise format. As someone who avoids Livejournal like the plague, I’m lovin’ it.

Comment on this post at HARAJUJU.net Forums

I don’t think there’s anyone out there who does simple, dark, and elegant lolita looks quite like chokelate. This is also a great example of short-haired lolita, something I don’t see much of!

Well, it’s a wig, but still.

Comment on this post at HARAJUJU.net Forums

Another pic of Baby’s new Claudia one-piece. Personally I’d be tempted to sweep any girl wearing this into my arms.

Are any of you girls picking this up? Let us know!

Comment on this post at HARAJUJU.net Forums

The lolita masters at Baby, the Stars Shine Bright have stirred up quite a bit of controversy with their new Claudia, the Fairytale Princess series. Particularly, it’s the most expensive one-piece that they’re currently offering, priced at ¥44,100.

For what it’s worth, my opinion is that this dress has a clearly high level of detail that makes it worth the premium price. This is a dress that is meant to be worn and loved for a very long time; if you’re already laying down for a Baby OP, what’s an extra ¥10,000 - 20,000? This is one of the nicest series released in a long time; enjoy it.

You can reserve any of the new items at Baby’s website now!

Comment on this post at HARAJUJU.net Forums

Kera’s fantastic rock-n-roll take on gothic lolita.

Comment on this post at HARAJUJU.net Forums 

Baby, the Stars Shine Bright — Night Fairy Fantasia Mini-Skirt — ¥16,590

Comment on this post at HARAJUJU.net Forums

A fascinating review of an Angelic Pretty “Sugary Carnival” replica dress was posted on the egl community. The consensus seems to be that for 50€ (approximately $73 USD) it’s not a bad deal, but I’m going to disagree. From afar it looks OK, but unless you’re planning on standing fifteen feet from everyone at all times that won’t help you much. I’m not going to include the pics here — check out the source — but check out this laundry list of unacceptable flaws:

• Numbers written in pencil still remain on the straps
• Serge seams with literally inches of thread hanging out
• Completely uneven seams
• Cheap, ugly lace
• Buttons sewn on wrong side of strap
• The print is a direct plagiarism, right down to the Angelic Pretty logo

I am sure to get an influx of responses from people who buy replicas defending this, saying, “We can’t all afford brand!” That’s fine. There are other Chinese and Korean brands that are doing affordable yet original designs. What this company is doing is blatantly illegal. Not only are they copying the hard work of the artist that did the print, they are trying to cash-in on AP’s brand value even more by attaching their logo directly to their work.

Not only that, but this incredibly low level of workmanship on any commercial product is unacceptable. A cheap piece of garbage is still a piece of garbage.

Stand up for the people who pioneered the designs and styles you adore. Buy the originals or buy from cheaper brands doing affordable, original designs. Don’t buy replicas.

Comment on this post at HARAJUJU.net Forums